Steven Kippel said... I disagree with you on tithe. Not that it doesn't belong on your list, but that the tithe of the old testament was for much more than taking care of the priesthood. I wrote a bit about it on my own blog a while back. http://destroyideas.blogspot.com/2007/04/thithes-offerings.html
We should not just dismiss tithe, but we should actually include tithe in everything we do. I have actually issued a challenge to congregations to tithe their time. http://destroyideas.blogspot.com/2008/09/tithing-time.html I'll be expounding on this further in the future and present it to the local congregations in my area.

 Keith Giles said...  Steven, you don't have to agree with me, of course. But the plain fact of the matter is that the New Testament church did not practice tithing. Tithing was under the Law.
Even under Constantine the church did not tithe. It wasn't until 700 AD that the Christian Church implemented the OT tithe.
Tithing is Old Testament. Giving, sharing and loving freely is New Testament.
Tithing is 10% for the priest and the support of the temple.
Sharing, giving and loving is for the support of the living temple and the priesthood of the believer, and the obedience to Jesus' command to be known for our love.
Sharing is everything, not a percentage. It's about love. It's 100%, not 10%.
 pagehamilton said... Keith, your post points out inconsistencies between the current church business model so many of us have known, and what we see "being the church" was in the NT - sort of. You leave me with the thought that you're trying to help the current church business model stay intact, but make some slight modifications to look a little more like what being the church really is about. Is that your intent?
If so, I respectfully differ with you on spending energy there. The typical church business is indeed dependent on various, good, business practices to exist. A business has to grow - or better, thrive - to stay viable. It needs money to grow, and a tithe-like giving practice is pretty much necessary to support this growth. A building is generally good for adding business legitimacy. Strong, human leadership - CEO, Pastor, whatever you call it - is a must for any business.
If I'm misunderstanding your intent, then I would ask - what are you trying to accomplish with these recommendations?

 Keith Giles said... Page,
My intent is to point out where the business-model church of today has strayed away from her original DNA set down by Christ in the NT.
My hope is to allow people who are in the biz-model church to see and identify these inconsistencies and, perhaps, decide to "be the church" instead of just attend one.
I agree with you that any hope of reforming the existing traditional church is a lost cause. It cannot fully be who/what it was meant to be as long as it clings to the man-made model and avoids the "not made with human hands" model.
At least, that's my opinion, and I believe the testimony of the NT. Some, many actually, disagree.

pagehamilton said...  Okay. More along the lines of trying to understand your intent, you note, "I am a licensed and ordained minister of the Gospel." and elsewhere, "...a writer, pastor, teacher, preacher, and missional church planter..." These strike me as "business model embracing" comments. But perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

Keith Giles said...  Page, 
Yeah, I guess I should explain myself on those points to make things clearer.
First, I was licensed and ordained at around 23 years of age by the Southeren Baptist Church back in El Paso, Tx.
That is simply a statement of fact. I can, and have, performed weddings and I have that certificate in the frame in my bedroom.
However, that isn't something I believe gives me any special authority over any other christian. It's simply that I have "been there, done that."
Certainly, I used to be part of that 'business-minded' traditional church, but that was over 3 years ago.
I kind of see where you're coming from when you say that my calling myself a "pastor, teacher, missional house church planter,", etc. appears to be language used by the traditional church...and it is...however it's also entirely biblical to have the spiritual gift to pastor (which I have independantly of any certificate on my wall), and the spiritual gift to teach (ditto), and I have planted a missional house church...which is also a very NT concept as well.
Hopefully that clears up some of where I am coming from. If not, a quick glance through the other articles on this blog and my main blog at www.KeithGiles.com should clear up anything else you might be curious about.
... One more thing: When I use the word "Pastor" to describe myself on my blog, I am not referring to the CEO, stand-up-front-and-preach-for-45-minutes version of a pastor. This is not the kind of pastor I see in the NT and it's not the kind of pastor I am in our house church.
To pastor is to shepherd and care for the people within the Body. My spiritual gifting is to care for the people in our house church and I do this without taking a salary or other compensation. It's something I do because God has called me to this in the Body and I am happy to serve others in this way.